What follows is the full interview with Laurie Hamer Page. This is the first interview in the series "Recapturing the Beauty of the Mind," which is part of the Recapturing Beauty Campaign led by BYU Women's Services.
For my first interview, I sought out my dear friend Laure Hamer Page. We met several years ago in BYU Concert Choir, and have been friends ever since. Laurie grew up in Minneapolis, MN, the
youngest of 5 siblings. She is working on a PhD in Counseling Psychology, and was recently married in July of this year. I love my conversations with Laurie—she is a deep thinker and an incredible listener. I always feel better about life after a good talk with her. I was excited to hear Laurie’s take on some of my favorite topics: women and education.
Monica Hymas Rasmussen: What led you to apply for the Counseling Psychology PhD program at BYU?
Monica Hymas Rasmussen: What led you to apply for the Counseling Psychology PhD program at BYU?
Laurie Hamer Page: I struggled for a long time unsure of what I wanted to do with my life and my career path. I dropped out of college in 2001 and moved back to Minnesota for 5 years. Prior to dropping out I probably changed my major 3 times officially, but about 6 times unofficially. I was pretty fed up with school and felt depressed and discouraged about my own abilities in academia. During that time in Minnesota I worked as a waitress and bartender and then went into restaurant management. I was a terrible manager--but I ended up being a pretty good counselor to my employees. I then went to work for an awesome small company in downtown Minneapolis as an office manager. It was a great job, but I realized that I was unhappy sitting at a desk and that I had to go back to school if I was going to do anything different.
I didn't really have a plan when I moved back out to Provo and I felt emotionally lost for the first few months being back in classes. For one thing, I was 6-9 years older than most of my classmates and I felt out of place. I knew I wanted to major in psychology, but that was about it. Then in December of that first semester back in school I heard a lecture about the theoretical underpinnings in psychology and some of the flaws with mainstream psychology and I felt excited and inspired. I started reading everything I could about this topic. It was really at that moment that I knew I wanted to go to graduate school. I planned on applying to Masters of Social Work programs--because the idea of a PhD felt way too intimidating at first. And honestly, I felt afraid to think about entering a 5 year program at age 29. I knew that I wanted to get married and have children and I thought that a masters program would be less complicated. However, after some encouragement from one of my professors and more thought and prayer I realized that a doctoral program would really be the best option for me.
MHR: In my first post I mentioned an ensign article that suggested we can find our life's mission at the intersection of our personal strengths, our personal challenges, and the world's need. Did any of these things lead you to choose the Counselling Psychology program? How/why/explain.
LHP: Wow, yes definitely. I feel like life brought me here. I didn't go through a really conscious decision making process about this. It almost just fell into my lap through my life's experiences. I think that I've always had an ability to empathize with others. But going through my own struggles was what really motivated me to want to help others with their struggles. I would not have been ready for, or wanted this career before going through all the things I experienced in my 20's. And I think my age and my life experience helped me get accepted into this program.
MHR: Comment on your dissertation research: describe what you are researching, why you chose the topic, or how it will add to the body of knowledge in your field?
LHP: My dissertation is on how converts’ relationships (with family, friends, God, and themselves) change after baptism into the LDS church. I got involved with this research team just before entering the program. I love it. The reason I got into it is because I love qualitative research. I find personal stories much more interesting and much more telling than numbers. I am also deeply interested in understanding psychology from a place that takes spirituality and human agency seriously.
MHR: What advice do you have for young BYU women who are struggling to choose a major and/or still searching for something they are passionate about, and/or considering dropping out of college?
LHP: There are SO many things I feel strongly about on this issue. First, pay attention to what you use to guide, and potentially limit, your choices. For example, are you afraid to enter a major that sounds interesting to you because it's not prestigious enough or because your parents would be disappointed? Are you afraid to go into a field that requires a lot of schooling? Are you afraid to approach a career that seems incompatible with motherhood? Don't be afraid to major in something you find interesting.
We tend to have such rigid and unrealistic ideas about what a career path even looks like. Most people end up changing their career several times, so it's not like you'll be stuck with this for the rest of your life. Pursue your passion. I meet more and more incredible women who have literally created their own career path, and have found the right balance for them between work and motherhood, by simply beginning with what they love.
If you don't know what you love or what you're passionate about, pay attention to how you like to spend your time. What interests you? What do you find funny/exciting/boring? What kind of role do you tend to take in relationships and in your family? Around what kind of issues do you tend to relate to others?
Another limit we place on ourselves is the idea that we have to race through school. Why? Sometimes the best thing for you to do is to get away for a semester, or a year, or several years. I have to say that I'm a big fan of getting an education, but at the same time I think it's important to consider whether or not you really want a college degree. My point is, take care of yourself, emotionally, physically, and spiritually and trust yourself.
MHR: Anything else you want to add?
LHP: I want women to remember that their worth is not tied to their academic success. I think one of the struggles with college years is that it's really hard not to define yourself with exterior indicators of success such as GPA or other people's expectations of you. I believe that it's important to get all the education you can, but a degree cannot and should not define you. I will not be a better person at the end of this because I'll have a PhD, but I feel that I am much more accepting of myself and others because of the things I've been learning in graduate school--and in that way my education has been invaluable to me.
I didn't really have a plan when I moved back out to Provo and I felt emotionally lost for the first few months being back in classes. For one thing, I was 6-9 years older than most of my classmates and I felt out of place. I knew I wanted to major in psychology, but that was about it. Then in December of that first semester back in school I heard a lecture about the theoretical underpinnings in psychology and some of the flaws with mainstream psychology and I felt excited and inspired. I started reading everything I could about this topic. It was really at that moment that I knew I wanted to go to graduate school. I planned on applying to Masters of Social Work programs--because the idea of a PhD felt way too intimidating at first. And honestly, I felt afraid to think about entering a 5 year program at age 29. I knew that I wanted to get married and have children and I thought that a masters program would be less complicated. However, after some encouragement from one of my professors and more thought and prayer I realized that a doctoral program would really be the best option for me.
MHR: In my first post I mentioned an ensign article that suggested we can find our life's mission at the intersection of our personal strengths, our personal challenges, and the world's need. Did any of these things lead you to choose the Counselling Psychology program? How/why/explain.
LHP: Wow, yes definitely. I feel like life brought me here. I didn't go through a really conscious decision making process about this. It almost just fell into my lap through my life's experiences. I think that I've always had an ability to empathize with others. But going through my own struggles was what really motivated me to want to help others with their struggles. I would not have been ready for, or wanted this career before going through all the things I experienced in my 20's. And I think my age and my life experience helped me get accepted into this program.
MHR: Comment on your dissertation research: describe what you are researching, why you chose the topic, or how it will add to the body of knowledge in your field?
LHP: My dissertation is on how converts’ relationships (with family, friends, God, and themselves) change after baptism into the LDS church. I got involved with this research team just before entering the program. I love it. The reason I got into it is because I love qualitative research. I find personal stories much more interesting and much more telling than numbers. I am also deeply interested in understanding psychology from a place that takes spirituality and human agency seriously.
MHR: What advice do you have for young BYU women who are struggling to choose a major and/or still searching for something they are passionate about, and/or considering dropping out of college?
LHP: There are SO many things I feel strongly about on this issue. First, pay attention to what you use to guide, and potentially limit, your choices. For example, are you afraid to enter a major that sounds interesting to you because it's not prestigious enough or because your parents would be disappointed? Are you afraid to go into a field that requires a lot of schooling? Are you afraid to approach a career that seems incompatible with motherhood? Don't be afraid to major in something you find interesting.
We tend to have such rigid and unrealistic ideas about what a career path even looks like. Most people end up changing their career several times, so it's not like you'll be stuck with this for the rest of your life. Pursue your passion. I meet more and more incredible women who have literally created their own career path, and have found the right balance for them between work and motherhood, by simply beginning with what they love.
If you don't know what you love or what you're passionate about, pay attention to how you like to spend your time. What interests you? What do you find funny/exciting/boring? What kind of role do you tend to take in relationships and in your family? Around what kind of issues do you tend to relate to others?
Another limit we place on ourselves is the idea that we have to race through school. Why? Sometimes the best thing for you to do is to get away for a semester, or a year, or several years. I have to say that I'm a big fan of getting an education, but at the same time I think it's important to consider whether or not you really want a college degree. My point is, take care of yourself, emotionally, physically, and spiritually and trust yourself.
MHR: Anything else you want to add?
LHP: I want women to remember that their worth is not tied to their academic success. I think one of the struggles with college years is that it's really hard not to define yourself with exterior indicators of success such as GPA or other people's expectations of you. I believe that it's important to get all the education you can, but a degree cannot and should not define you. I will not be a better person at the end of this because I'll have a PhD, but I feel that I am much more accepting of myself and others because of the things I've been learning in graduate school--and in that way my education has been invaluable to me.
