The Utah Symphony! ...and.. Andre Watts..?

We take a break from our regularly scheduled quasi-feminist* programming to comment on Andre Watts with the Utah Symphony last night.

Although I'm by no means a regular reader, and probably don't have sufficient experience to comment with authority (but who's concerned about authority on the internets? srsly), the gushing review linked above by the Trib seems consistent with the state famous for the "Utah jump."

Oh?! A world-renowned/classical soloist/virtuoso? Electrifying! Tear-jerking! Beyond the reach of the mortal imagination!!

Why do we do that? Don't get me wrong. I have respect for that world, for the artistry and craftsmanship that are a result of life-long, all-consuming dedication. And though I have the minimum of personal experience with this world, it's been enough to develop a certain amount of discernment..., the sort of discernment one expects from a classical music reviewer at a respectable newspaper.

If it were me, I certainly would have commented on the power-struggle over tempo that commenced in the introductory bars of the first movement. I have too much respect for the musicianship of both Fischer and Andre Watts to think that the discrepancy was anything but a power struggle. Watts pushed ahead while Fischer pulled back. The resulting divergence of more than a beat was, to my ears, Watts' doing and ultimately proved him the winner. It made me wonder about the previous evening's performance in Ogden, as well as about Watts' real opinion of this (relatively) small mountain town orchestra.

And speaking of divo behavior, I had to wonder about the real cause behind the re-ordering of the program. The Stravinsky Scherzo a la Russe was supposed to have been the program opener (fantastic opener--bravo Fischer), followed by Rachmaninoff, then intermission, and finally Beethoven. After all, Beethoven is the star of the season--the symphonies have consistently been programmed last. Or, maybe I should say, *Fischer's* Beethoven is the star of the season. Rightly so. The two are a brilliant match. At any rate, the program was re-ordered, without explanation, thusly: Beethoven first (no appetizers to precede our meat and potatoes), then intermission, and Stravinsky and Rachmaninoff for a distinctly Slavic, and Watts-centered, second half. Whose idea was that, really? Well, evidently not Fischer's, because we had in our program the order he would have preferred.

As to Watts' playing? Well. Tons to admire, naturally. I was struck by his tempos, and not just the power struggle of the first movement opening. Almost without exception, his solos took the tempo and energy of the preceding orchestral sections and ran with it. I often hear many of these solos in the Rach 2 as an opportunity for the soloist to change the energy, to give a dramatic breath before launching into a stretched out tempo, thus highlighting the pianist's autonomy. But not so in Watt's interpretation. He almost invariably took the tempo for his solos given by the orchestra, making for more seamless transitions and more of a sense of unity between piano and orchestra. It was original and breathlessly energetic, values to be sought in a work so universally known.

However, Newton's assertion of clarity in Watts Rachmaninoff? Eh.... I can't agree with that. I've heard much lesser pianists play Rach 2 with a great deal more clarity than did Watts last night. My sense was of a concerto that has long been in his repertoire, but that didn't quite receive enough practice time for it's revival this time around. Weakness seemed most obvious in the opening material of the third movement, which was a real muddle, and the overall lack of carrying power that struggled all night long to be heard over the Utah Symphony's full forces. The number of melodies whose sensitive diminuendo ended in a weak whisper, utterly overshadowed by Fischer's romantic strings, was what I would call amateurish. He played with the sensitivity of a great collaborative chamber musician, but lacked the athleticism required of concerto soloist.

The performance did inspire me to seek out recordings of Watts' Rachmaninoff to hear what he can really do. I'll let you know.

*I say "quasi" because, although I'm most certainly on my way to bona fide, family-destroying (JOKE!) feminism, I do have to temper both my anger and extremism in order to be acceptable for the BYU gig. If you can find it (you can't), I do have an anonymous blog where more heretical views are being exploded. I mean--explored. Yes.

Brooke Nelson Edwards grew up in Cedar Hills, UT, studied print journalism at Utah State and worked as a reporter at the Standard-Examiner both before and after serving an LDS mission in Nashville, TN. She is now in her third year of law school at BYU and hopes to use her degree in government and public interest capacities. She is the current president of the BYU Moot Court Board and BYU's chapter of Women in the Law.

MHR: What, if anything, has surprised you about law school, or about yourself in law school? (What has been different than you expected, good or bad? What new talents are abilities have you discovered, if any?)

BNE: I was really surprised by how different law school was from both my undergraduate experience and the experiences my friends were having in their own graduate studies. Law school is structured very differently than other academic programs and the forced curve is something I don't ever think I'll adjust to. I remember telling my mom that one of the reasons I went back to school is not just because I love school but because I've always been good at school. It was like school was a game that I knew inside and out -- I knew all the tricks, the shortcuts, and had a guaranteed winning strategy. When I got to law school is wasn't just that I felt the rules had changed on me -- it was like I had entered an entirely different game, and one I had no idea how to play. The worst part is there was no instruction manual and no way to know if I was doing it right since your only grade is one final at the end of the semester. That hasn't been all bad, though. I've seen a lot of growth in myself both academically and personally as I've adapted to this new structure and to a new "lawyerly-like" way of thinking. And one thing that was a hugely pleasant surprise was how many incredible classmates I've met and become close with. Finding a group of people willing and eager to have the kind of highly academic but also intensely personal and important conversations that I have with some of my classmates on a regular basis would be really difficult outside of the law school environment. I'm going to miss that when I graduate.

MHR: In what ways do you feel your education in the law will help you to make a difference in your community? And, in what ways specifically do you hope to make a difference?

BNE: I would love to help one day at a policy level to improve the experiences of rape and sexual assault survivors. There is a lot that can be done in both the way we prosecute these crimes, and in the way we educate our communities about these crimes, that could both reduce the occurrence of rape and sexual assault and prevent victims from being "re-victimized" by the system. There are also other areas of reform in criminal law that I think are really important, particularly what I've heard one judge call our "addiction to incarceration." A law degree, and more importantly the hands-on work experiences law school has provided me, have been essential in reaching my goals. I am much more confident that I have something of value to say or contribute after working as a student intern with organizations like the Utah Crime Victims Clinic, working in Samoa on United Nations initiatives to prevent domestic violence, and working here in Utah with attorneys in the criminal justice system. I would never have had those opportunities had I not come to law school.

MHR: In what ways does Women in the Law benefit the women it serves?

The goal of Women in the Law is to support women in their pursuit of a legal career. We do that by setting them up with mentors who are already practicing, providing a link with the women's chapter of the BYU Law alumni association, providing clinics on basic business-related topics like how to navigate cocktail hour or keep up at a meeting on the golf course. We seek to help students give back and help women in the community by providing opportunities to support the local women and children's crisis center. We also occasionally bring in panelists and speakers. Most importantly, we provide a place for first year students to connect with women who are successfully navigating law school so they have a network to fall back on and someone to go to when they have questions. The first year is especially rough and I know that for many of our members, Women in the Law was a lifesaver during that time. A couple of the opportunities I've had in law school have been a direct result of friendships I've formed through Women in the Law.

MHR: What advice do you have for women who are considering law school?

Really do your research. And don't commit unless you're willing to take on the debt even without a guarantee that you'll have a high paying job on the other end. I fell in love with public interest and government work during my time in law school and so the jobs I'm considering don't pay particularly well -- some of them don't even pay at all and there are many capacities in which I'm excited to use my legal degree as a volunteer. I've been really lucky to be at BYU where the cost is low enough that I can afford to take those opportunities in the future I am excited about without worrying too much about what they pay -- I wouldn't have that luxury if I had attended a different law school with much higher tuition. Also, be prepared for stiff competition and to be humbled. If you get into law school it's probably because you've been at the top of everything your entire life. The adjustment to the forced curve is difficult for many students. So make sure you have a strong support system built up around you before law school starts so you cope well when things get hard. Most importantly, talk to women alumni from any of the law schools you are considering. Don't be afraid to ask them the hard questions about debt, the current legal market, balancing a career and family responsibilities, etc. There are a lot of really amazing things about pursuing a law degree. Knowing as much as possible about law school, even about the more challenging aspects, can only help you succeed.

"You cannot educate a mother without educating her family."

Last night, four distinguished female BYU faculty gathered with graduate students for the Graduate Student Society’s Annual Women Faculty and Student Forum in the Hinckley Alumni Center to socialize, provide support, and discuss issues relevant to women in academia. I dragged my husband along, enjoyed some great refreshments, and was truly inspired by the stories these women had to tell, from the role models who motivated them and the trajectory of their career paths, to their thoughts on gender roles and how to navigate family life while pursuing a graduate degree and career.

I’ll briefly introduce them and provide a few of my favorite quotes from the night.

Jini Roby has a law degree, as well as degrees in social work and marriage and family therapy. She was born in South Korea and adopted as a teenager by an LDS family in Utah. You can read more of her fascinating story at the BYU Magazine archives. Her education and the development of her career in social work and international child protection law seemed to grow up alongside her three daughters.

Dr. Roby answered the question “What were some unexpected challenges you faced during your education and how did you deal with them?”

“A big challenge that I had was that I had to be superwoman. I had to do everything well. I had to prove to everybody that … even though I went to graduate school, my children weren’t suffering, I was a good church member doing all my callings really well, and you know, being a great wife. My yard was spotless--especially my yard, because everybody could see that. These kind of externally driven motivations were killing me. And I found myself sleeping 4 hours on average per night, and as you can imagine, my health was horrible when I graduated law school, and it took me about three years to recover. I wish that I could go back and give myself permission to not be superwoman.”

Susan Easton Black has been on the religion faculty since 1978, and her reputation for making church history come alive has caused her classes and her speaking schedule to fill quickly. You can read more details of her career in this article at the BYU Magazine archives.

Dr. Black discussed some of the difficulties she faced as she went through graduate school.

“I went back to graduate school as a single parent when my oldest was three, and I had three children. I went back to school on a scholarship for poverty. So I was pretty motivated to do pretty great. I’ve always thought, you cannot educate a mother without educating her family. And so I look at my three sons, and each one of them have a doctorate now too. The impact of [a mother] going to school sets an amazing example of priorities in the home. If you’re excited about what you’re learning, and it’s actually fun to learn, you’ll be amazed at how that can pass on to family members.”

I knew when I started [graduate school] that I would need to write. And so I put myself through the graduate program as a ghost writer for professors. It was pretty easy. There are a lot of professors who collect information, but never get their article or their book literally out the door. So how I made friends, and supported myself, I just knocked on their doors, and said, “I’m a writer, as well as your student. I’m wondering if you need some help.” And I would show them what I had written before. It made it pretty easy. A lot of people as they go through the programs, they typically stop at the thesis or dissertation. They can’t do it, it’s just too much. But if you’re writing from day one in, it doesn’t become a huge hurdle at the end.

Emily Bates teaches biochemistry and researches migraine, cancer and birth defects. She earned a BS in Biology from University of Utah and a PhD from Harvard Medical School in genetics.

Dr. Bates answered the question, “What was your most successful moment, when you realized it was all worth it?”

“Pretty much right now—starting three or four months ago! I’ve been working with some graduate students in my lab, studying the cause of some birth defects. I had a hunch that it had to do with a pathway that’s involved in cancer, and it looked like it was that, and I kept getting closer and closer. We got the results from some new experiments and it turns out we did have a connection to cancer. We found a protein channel, that if blocked, can block one of the pathways that’s most responsible for tumors growing and metastasizing, especially in lung cancer that moves really quickly. It is exciting just to see that I might make a big impact, that this could be a new drug target we could use. I’ve been on cloud nine for like four months! I’m dreaming about it at night, and I feel like I’m getting inspired! And that doesn’t always happen. A lot of grad school wasn’t that way. I felt like I was in the dark a lot of the time. But just feeling like you’re making a contribution and changing the world is awesome.”

Carol Ellertson teaches part-time in the Marriott School of Business. She has received graduate degrees in International Studies and Philosophy of Psychology. She has six children and ten grandchildren. You can read one of her fascinating articles on ritual worship here. Dr. Ellertson went back to school while her children were still at home, and spoke about her family’s unique implementation of principles from the Proclamation on the Family:

“If we go back to the very first marriage talked about in the Pear of Great Price, Adam and Eve, they worked side by side, doing the same thing almost, and they both contributed. In that situation it wasn’t just her with the children and him out in the fields, they were doing the same work together. It makes all the difference in the world to have a supportive husband. My husband was kind of the other way, he was like, “As soon as you finish and start teaching, I’m retiring! You can be the provider.” But he has been such a great support and help. So as you look for potential husbands, that is so key. Reaching your potential and developing your talents, makes you a more happy and better parent because you are fulfilling your dreams and the mission that you know God has in store for you, and I think it makes you a better, well-rounded, more even-tempered parent.”

Interviewing ALL the people!

This week I interviewed a TON of people. When the Daily Universe published this article about women and education in Utah (that I wish I had written), I wanted to know what people’s reaction would be to the statistics quoted in the article.

Some of the statistics: In 2009, Utah women’s graduation rates were 6 percent below the rate of Utah men, and 2 percent below the national average of women. In 2008, 49 percent of Utah residents thought men should at least receive a four-year degree, while only 39 percent believed women should receive at least a four-year degree.

So I grabbed my handy DVR and hit the quads and halls. Here are a few of the responses I got.

MHR: What do you think of the fact that so many less women than men receive a higher education in Utah?

“Obviously there’s a big correlation to the whole religious emphasis on getting married and having a family. I think people make the mistake of thinking that getting married and having a family means that a woman doesn’t have to put priority on her education.”

MHR: What should be done, if anything?

“I think it’s mostly a culture thing. There almost needs to be a culture change or a change of thought that it’s not wrong for a woman to want both a degree and/or a career and have a family and kids. Because to me I know that I’m expected to be a mother, but I also expect my husband to be a father. And I don’t see how [motherhood should] change a woman’s aspirations or goals or her working on her potential.” Corrine Cook, French Horn Performance, Murietta CA.

MHR: Why do you think there is this inequality in Utah?

“I think the church in general makes it ok for women to not finish, because if you’re married and you’re a mom, obviously that’s one of the greatest things you can do. But at the same there are other things happening too. I’ve been married for only like a year and there are already people confronting me and my husband about when we’re going to have kids… Number one: none of your business! Number two: we want to do other things first because we want to be a stable unit so that we can raise kids in a good environment.

“The official church stance is go and get an education for women, but the culture in Utah is saying the exact opposite thing, I feel like. And so I think it’s kind of hard being a woman to have this pressure to get married and start a family. It’s not like that’s a bad thing, but I feel like, there is time to get an education [and a time to get married]. And I think it’s important in this modern world, where everyone’s getting smarter, and people are living longer, to be a contributing member of society, you need to be smart, you need to be educated. And not just for job reasons, but I think women can really benefit from getting a degree… Just doing something for yourself, being your own person before you get married, and before you’re a mom, because you’re an individual. I think getting a degree makes you that much better of a person, whether you use it in the real world or not.” Lisa Selman, Art History, Fullerton CA

MHR: Should women receive an education?

“I think women need education just as men do. I don’t think there’s any differentiation. Each needs to progress and learn about the world and challenges that the world faces.”

MHR: But don’t women need to stay in the home, and face the challenges there?

“I think one of the major reasons [for women to get an education is because they need to teach their kids general skills and especially if they had a son, they want their son to go out , as well as their daughter, to be in the work force and learn, and they would need to teach them those skills that are necessary.” Morgan Crockett, Advertising, Salt Lake City UT.

MHR: Should women receive an education?

“Definitely. Our church’s core belief is that we are supposed to be striving to educate ourselves, so it kinda be wrong to intentionally not educate yourself. …Having an education makes you a more well rounded person, so regardless of whether or not you apply that directly, it’s overall increasing everyone’s well being.” Landin Blackburn, Leto Texas, Chemical Engineering.

MHR: Why do women need an education?

“If you get a degree, then you’re able to be that much more of a help to your kids, and you can educate them and get them excited about education. And it’s true that with knowledge comes power. So you’re able to be a better person, a better mom, because you’re able to guide them down the road.”

MHR: How will your degree help you be a better mom?

“I think it’s a perfect degree because I think that nature is one of the ways that we grow as people, by learning and understanding what God has created for us. Once you go out into nature, there’s something that you learn about yourself that you can’t learn any other way. And I want to be able to take my kids out into nature and teach them it’s important that you don’t’ litter… I want to teach them about plants, what type of plant this is, what it can be used for, why it does what it does, because once you realize that a tree is so much more than a tree, you start appreciating life and the simplicities of it. I want to get my kids excited about learning, excited about wildlife and what they’re surrounded by.” Libby Baum. Wildlife/Wildlands Conservation, Salem Oregon.

That night I went home to poll my facebook friends. These are teh responses I got to my question:

LDS women, are you glad you got a degree? Why?

Absolutely. I love the learning that has come with getting my degrees. Regardless of how "marketable" I have become--and while I kind of hate the structure of a formal education--I feel that my perspectives have been very profitably broadened by gaining a formal education. I also feel like school, in general, has laid a foundation for me to want to be a self-learner for the rest of my life. Erin Mumford, BA 2009, English.

I love the feeling of accomplishment that getting a degree brought me… And of course, the actual learning that took place in the process of getting said degree is priceless to me. I find myself making connections between what I learned then and my life now, and it continues to expand my knowledge and enhance my college experience. Brenna Woodbury Williams, BS Health Science, 2006

To be completely honest I when I entered college I was okay with graduating and I was going to be okay if I didn't graduate. I actually thought I wouldn't. Well, I did graduate and I am so, so happy I did. Teaching was something that changed me forever and has really shaped who I am. I feel so secure knowing that if something were to happen to Allen that I will be able to find work. I love my degree, I loved my job, and now I am so grateful I can continue to learn and grow and teach! Cameo Burnett Sabey, History Teaching, 2006.

YES! It has taught me to stand up for myself and not give in to the elitism and dogmatic opinions of others...whether about me or the world around me. Emily Workman, BS Home and Family Living, 2009

I am absolutely glad I have a degree. Going to college taught me how to think for myself, research what I don't know, gave me an educational foundation to build on for the rest of my life. I am glad I have something to show for all the years of work I put in. I am proud to have a degree. It is part of who I am and gives me a more positive self image. I feel smart. I feel educated. And I can say "Look. Here is my degree to prove it." My bachelor's degree has qualified me for my awesome job (which I love) and I now have the option of going in several different directions for a master's degree. I am so glad I have a degree. Any daughter of mine will be strongly, STRONGLY encouraged to get one too... as advanced as she can. Amanda Van Gesen Bailey, BM Choral Education,2008

Totally! I have a bachelor's and I'm proud of myself for finishing school. I'm the only girl in my family who has finished college and I think it has helped me become more well-rounded and more valuable in my field. As a stay-at-home mom my music degree lets me teach piano from my home and charge a respectable amount of money while working around my family's schedule. I'd definitely do it again (though I'm not interested in going back for more!). Stephanie Payne Thomas BA Music, 2010

Definitely yes! Sometimes I joke that I should have gotten a Home and Family Living major instead of a music major, but I really wouldn't have had it any other way. I seriously considered dropping out of grad school after I had Hyrum because of how exhausted and absolutely insurmountable the obstacle seemed. But, I am now so very grateful that I continued because of 1) the self-satisfaction it gives me and 2) so I can set an example for my children of persevering and finishing what they start. Amy Isaakson Cartwright, MM Vocal Performance, 2011

I'm fine with my bachelors, but I would have done it differently. I would have received a two year tech degree that made 50+ thousand dollars a year. I would have worked hard to graduate at twenty. With the small investment of time, and huge payoff in cash I would have traveled, expanded my vision and understanding, and strait up learned to finally make a decent indian curry. Now that I'm a mother of two, married to a great guy who is in college himself I could be working part time and getting paid oodles of cash so again I could be traveling, cooking, learning, and collecting local art. Summer Russell Elrod,

I am extremely proud of my degree. For me, it is a representation of the knowledge I gained and growth I experienced during my time at BYU. Some of my best experiences in life came from earning that degree, like my Study Abroad in Vienna and performing in several operas. My degree is something to be proud of; I stretched myself in many ways to earn that degree. And some day, I will use it to show my children just how rewarding a college education is when you work hard to achieve it. Britain Soderquist, BM Vocal Performance, 2010

"Do not be afraid of anything."

This week’s interview is with my good friend Ruth Eldredge, an organ performance grad student in the School of Music. Ruth grew up in Colorado, the ninth of ten children. She received her bachelor’s degree in organ performance, and went on to study musicology at Oxford. But for as long as I’ve known Ruth, I never knew that when she started college, she had very different plans for her life! I’ll let her tell the story…

MHR: When you first started college, what was your plan, for your education, career, family?

RE: Oh, I had everything planned. Down to the T. I was going to come to BYU, major in linguistics, then go to medical school, because I wanted to run pediatric neuro-surgery clinics in Central America. I figured I’d start learning the languages, and then go to

medical school, and spend a lot of time overseas building clinics, maybe even a medical school in Central America. That’s what I wanted to do. And I had every expectation of being married by the time I was twenty… partly so I wouldn’t have to decide whether to go on a mission!

Anyway, I was going to drive a gold SUV, and be a neurosurgeon. I worked in a doctor’s office my freshman year and I remember driving home and pretending that I was in my SUV—I was actually in this really ugly two-toned truck. So, I was pretending that I was calling my kids on my cell phone and telling them I was on my way to pick them up from school.

MHR: Ruth, what a cute freshman you were! So how did you get from this plan to majoring in organ performance?

It came on gradually. I taught myself to play the organ when I was thirteen because I got called to be the ward organist. But I didn’t have any lessons until I got to college, and it was partially because I had decided that I was going to medical school, and I was done playing piano, I wouldn’t have time it was too stressful, I never thought I was that good at it, and so that was enough for me. Time to get on to real life. But I remember one time talking to my uncle my freshman year and I asked him if he had any advice as I was going to college, and he said, “You’re not going to understand this now, but make music an important part of your life.” He didn’t know me well, I don’t think he even knew I played the organ. But I remember thinking, “Yeah, that’s important”… to the point where I thought, ok, I can’t take music out of my life completely. But I was too scared to do piano, I wasn’t really that into it, so I decided to take this organ class. There was a professor on campus that I’d heard of and really wanted to get to know, so I decided to take his organ class. And it wasn’t so much learning to play the organ, it was more learning what stops to use in organ music, which I knew nothing about. It got me thinking this was something I needed to try. I had some unfinished business with music. So I took four organ lessons, tried out for the school of music, and got in. At first I did all the pre-med classes alongside the music classes. Then in my third year, when I was twenty, and I kind of had an awakening moment: I needed to give music a really good go, I needed to make it top priority and see what happens. I jettisoned the pre-med, and with that off my mind, other things started coming, and that’s when I decided to go on a mission. I served a mission in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.

MHR: So you went from your plan of medical school, to music and majoring in organ, then on a mission. Tell me the story of how you ended up going to Oxford.

It comes back to the people, every time. I started playing the organ because of the professor, and when I got home from my mission, I got into some history classes because some friends had introduced me, and I started working with some of the history professors. I really enjoyed the intellectual environment of history, looking at the way we’ve thought about the past, and how that really affects out future. I think what we see and how we think on a day to day basis is heavily influenced by the past, and by what other people have induced us to see. Coming to an awareness of that made me want to start rethinking the way I thought about the world: Are there things in our history or in our past that we’ve been missing, or are there things that we’ve said are ok, or are status quo that really don’t have to be or really shouldn’t be? So I got into history that way, and then I wrote an Honors Thesis that got me into musicology. I had done well in my music analysis and history classes in the music school, and I really like to take things apart, I’ve got a pretty good puzzle mind. So trying to piece together what makes music music, why do we care so much about it, was a big deal to me.

My Honors Thesis is a history of a Portuguese composer called Carlos Seixas (it’s a really uncommon name, it’s the same name of the Sephardic Jew who taught Hebrew to Joseph Smith, in the school of the prophets.) I was playing some of his music in my recital, and I was interested in Portuguese music--it’s an untapped field. I could do the Portuguese research because I had the background in Portuguese from my mission. Through some of my professors at BYU I found out that in Oxford there was a musicologist who specialized in Portuguese music. They suggested I apply and start working with him. This is funny because when I was about twenty I had got it into my head that I was going to go to Oxford. The thought just popped into my head, “I’m going to go to Oxford.” And I had forgotten about it! I remembered telling my friends about it, that I was going to apply for a Rhoades Scholarship, and then I just forgot! Until it came up when my professors suggested it, at least 3 years later, and I remembered, “Oh, I wanted to do that!” I put in my application to Oxford in May, then went on a study abroad to Oxford and Cambridge in July, then got my acceptance letter to Oxford while I was at Cambridge. So I came home for three weeks, got a visa, and found temporary jobs so I could pay for a plane ticket to get back to Oxford… I worked on an assembly line, I drove a delivery truck… Just to I pay for a flight back to start my degree at Oxford.

MHR: How do you feel that your time at Oxford changed you?

That’s a big question. It changed my blood. Oxford resonated very strongly with me. I felt there were a lot of factors. That was the first place where I felt like I could focus on my studies and I didn’t have to worry about how I was going to pay for it. I felt financially taken care of and I had what I needed. And that was a new feeling for me.

I’m more confident, and more self-aware. It’s not like I couldn’t get these things in other places, maybe it was partly the timing of being in my mid-twenties, and I just happened to be there… Being on my own… Being able to talk to people from all over theworld, and feeling like I fit in, in this world where everybody was from a different country. I never had an American roommate.

I felt like I was responsible for everything I knew, everything I’d learned in the past, and for everything else people expected me to know. I felt very responsible for that. I think this is the important part: We have a responsibility for the opportunities we have, for the education we receive, for the wisdom bestowed on us through our life experiences. It would be like learning to drive, and then refusing to drive well. In that way, the whole experience of living abroad and forming an opinion about the world, learning things that I find important, I feel like I have a responsibility to reflect those things in my character and personality, and to contribute those things to my society.

What I realized is I have this image of what a BYU grad is like; I have an image of what an Oxford grad is like, I have an image of what a Mormon woman is like, and if I wanted that image to be maintained, to be true, then I had to be that. If I wanted that image to be something else, then I had to change it, but now that I have those labels on me, BYU, Oxford, they’re going to be on my resume for the rest of my life and people will think certain things about it. It’s kind of like taking on another name—people identify me with those names. There’s not going back to the way you used to be, once you’ve had an educational experience. You’re responsible for using the tools that you have.

If anything, having had the educational advancement that I’ve had has made me more committed to a domestic life. [Ha ! I love Ruth. This totally caught me off guard, totally out of the blue, but I love where she goes with it..]I love to cook and clean more now than I ever did before I went to graduate school. They are creative processes that are important to human life. Julie Beck says you never get away from mundanity no matter what your job is.

More than choosing what we’re going to do, is choosing how we’re going to do what we need to do. And one thing feeds on another. If we do one thing well, we’ll do another thing well. The only thing that’s going to hold you back and really disqualify you is stopping doing things, not thinking or creating. But doing one thing, being creative in one way, facilitates our ability to create in other ways.

If you’re a good student, you’ll be a good mother. You engage the same faculties. And it works in the opposite direction. That’s why there are so many curve-breaking mothers on campus! Have you ever had a class with a 40-year-old mother who’s raised five kids? You’re never going to top her! She’s going to get better grades than you, every time! If you can learn to engage your mind in something, you’ll pick up the skills you need to get a good job, start your business, run a household, anything.

MHR: If you were to give advice to little freshman Ruth, what would you say?

I would say, do not be afraid of anything. It just slows you down. Don’t be afraid that one choice will exclude other choices. Rarely is that the case. That kind of black-and-white, either-or thinking is kind of like a disease. Fear takes away the opportunities you’re afraid you won’t get. The only thing that’s going to hold you back and really disqualify you is stopping doing things, not thinking or creating.

Interview with Laurie Hamer Page

What follows is the full interview with Laurie Hamer Page. This is the first interview in the series "Recapturing the Beauty of the Mind," which is part of the Recapturing Beauty Campaign led by BYU Women's Services.

For my first interview, I sought out my dear friend Laure Hamer Page. We met several years ago in BYU Concert Choir, and have been friends ever since. Laurie grew up in Minneapolis, MN, the

youngest of 5 siblings. She is working on a PhD in Counseling Psychology, and was recently married in July of this year. I love my conversations with Laurie—she is a deep thinker and an incredible listener. I always feel better about life after a good talk with her. I was excited to hear Laurie’s take on some of my favorite topics: women and education.

Monica Hymas Rasmussen: What led you to apply for the Counseling Psychology PhD program at BYU?

Laurie Hamer Page: I struggled for a long time unsure of what I wanted to do with my life and my career path. I dropped out of college in 2001 and moved back to Minnesota for 5 years. Prior to dropping out I probably changed my major 3 times officially, but about 6 times unofficially. I was pretty fed up with school and felt depressed and discouraged about my own abilities in academia. During that time in Minnesota I worked as a waitress and bartender and then went into restaurant management. I was a terrible manager--but I ended up being a pretty good counselor to my employees. I then went to work for an awesome small company in downtown Minneapolis as an office manager. It was a great job, but I realized that I was unhappy sitting at a desk and that I had to go back to school if I was going to do anything different.

I didn't really have a plan when I moved back out to Provo and I felt emotionally lost for the first few months being back in classes. For one thing, I was 6-9 years older than most of my classmates and I felt out of place. I knew I wanted to major in psychology, but that was about it. Then in December of that first semester back in school I heard a lecture about the theoretical underpinnings in psychology and some of the flaws with mainstream psychology and I felt excited and inspired. I started reading everything I could about this topic. It was really at that moment that I knew I wanted to go to graduate school. I planned on applying to Masters of Social Work programs--because the idea of a PhD felt way too intimidating at first. And honestly, I felt afraid to think about entering a 5 year program at age 29. I knew that I wanted to get married and have children and I thought that a masters program would be less complicated. However, after some encouragement from one of my professors and more thought and prayer I realized that a doctoral program would really be the best option for me.

MHR: In my first post I mentioned an ensign article that suggested we can find our life's mission at the intersection of our personal strengths, our personal challenges, and the world's need. Did any of these things lead you to choose the Counselling Psychology program? How/why/explain.

LHP: Wow, yes definitely. I feel like life brought me here. I didn't go through a really conscious decision making process about this. It almost just fell into my lap through my life's experiences. I think that I've always had an ability to empathize with others. But going through my own struggles was what really motivated me to want to help others with their struggles. I would not have been ready for, or wanted this career before going through all the things I experienced in my 20's. And I think my age and my life experience helped me get accepted into this program.


MHR: Comment on your dissertation research: describe what you are researching, why you chose the topic, or how it will add to the body of knowledge in your field?

LHP: My dissertation is on how converts’ relationships (with family, friends, God, and themselves) change after baptism into the LDS church. I got involved with this research team just before entering the program. I love it. The reason I got into it is because I love qualitative research. I find personal stories much more interesting and much more telling than numbers. I am also deeply interested in understanding psychology from a place that takes spirituality and human agency seriously.

MHR: What advice do you have for young BYU women who are struggling to choose a major and/or still searching for something they are passionate about, and/or considering dropping out of college?

LHP: There are SO many things I feel strongly about on this issue. First, pay attention to what you use to guide, and potentially limit, your choices. For example, are you afraid to enter a major that sounds interesting to you because it's not prestigious enough or because your parents would be disappointed? Are you afraid to go into a field that requires a lot of schooling? Are you afraid to approach a career that seems incompatible with motherhood? Don't be afraid to major in something you find interesting.

We tend to have such rigid and unrealistic ideas about what a career path even looks like. Most people end up changing their career several times, so it's not like you'll be stuck with this for the rest of your life. Pursue your passion. I meet more and more incredible women who have literally created their own career path, and have found the right balance for them between work and motherhood, by simply beginning with what they love.

If you don't know what you love or what you're passionate about, pay attention to how you like to spend your time. What interests you? What do you find funny/exciting/boring? What kind of role do you tend to take in relationships and in your family? Around what kind of issues do you tend to relate to others?

Another limit we place on ourselves is the idea that we have to race through school. Why? Sometimes the best thing for you to do is to get away for a semester, or a year, or several years. I have to say that I'm a big fan of getting an education, but at the same time I think it's important to consider whether or not you really want a college degree. My point is, take care of yourself, emotionally, physically, and spiritually and trust yourself.



MHR: Anything else you want to add?

LHP: I want women to remember that their worth is not tied to their academic success. I think one of the struggles with college years is that it's really hard not to define yourself with exterior indicators of success such as GPA or other people's expectations of you. I believe that it's important to get all the education you can, but a degree cannot and should not define you. I will not be a better person at the end of this because I'll have a PhD, but I feel that I am much more accepting of myself and others because of the things I've been learning in graduate school--and in that way my education has been invaluable to me.

Music

..says it so much better than words. Thanks to my brother Sam for reminding me of this great song with his cover, posted on FB this morning.

(What follows is me at my most emo. Just warning.)




It may just be that I first heard and loved this song in my impressionable teenage years, but there's something here that strikes a very close chord for me. Well, for one, the eclectic nature of Dave's style and the incredible skill of the band members earns my music-snob respect. For another, there's the beautiful marriage of skill and improvisation that allows them to paint such hazy emotions with such pin-pricking clarity (violin-saxophone improvisatory counterpoint at :44, banjo solo of epic restraint, 2:44). For yet another, the poetry expresses things I often feel but have a hard time sitting with, letting be, you know, as an American female Mormon... As a girl who grew up with the should-monkey on my back.

".. and on my way came up with the answers. I
scratched my head,
and the answers were gone."